Talk:The Virtual Sleepless Hypothesis

From doktorsleepless

Amazing stuff, please keep going! --Murphix 05:31, 9 September 2007 (PDT)

I love this. --Warren Ellis 08:20, 10 September 2007 (PDT)

There's more. And more coming. --ViolentVirtue 08:28, 10 September 2007 (PDT)

Still haven't read #2, but have a theory about the Mirror Event. Doktor Sleepless, both the book and character, is about breaking down the barriers between reality and fantasy, which is somewhat an obsession of the Intarwub Jesus (ask him about F is for Fake). Virtual Sleepless could be an extended metaphor of himself, then, because he/it is altering what it means to be "real". After all, what we assume is real is only that information our brain receives through its sensorium. And there's also that word for something that comes into being because enough people believe in it--unfortunately I don't know it off the top of my head. It happened with Snuffelupugus on Sesame Street, for example. It's another way to "hack the OS of the universe", as Grant Morrison put it, and change what is real. Yes, I just compared Warren's latest work of staggering genius to a toddler's show. Sesame Street's deep, man. --Murphix 10:11, 10 September 2007 (PDT)

There's a fantastic anime out there called Paranoia Agent which is about this very concept you describe.

The truth is, we're two issues in, and the real answer to all of this is probably some weird hybrid of all of these things we're discussing here. It also kind of ties in with what the Doktor says about stopping "being real." and "becoming a character." A completely fictional character, given shape and form entirely through science, for the sole purpose of showing everyone that we're not seeing the future standing in front of us because we're watching the skies for our flying cars. --ViolentVirtue 10:25, 10 September 2007 (PDT)

I really like the way you've expanded your Virtual Sleepless Hypothesis. Its interesting how we can start at the same premise and take it into very different directions. I'm not quite ready to except the whole haptic theory - how does a virtual man break a mirror anyway? But your commentary on Warren Ellis as Doktor Sleepless to become a character to make a point is pretty awesome.

Hey, do you suppose we've got it backwards? The man in Cell 23 is a "virtual" person? It would probably be a lot easier to fake the existence of a man that doesn't leave the room and that no one really talks to much. --Grim 18:27, 10 September 2007 (PDT)

Grim, I had the same though. Comatose drugged-up Reinhardt makes a good meat puppet. That would strengthen the Mirror Reinhardt's description of that one being "not viable".--Rcapra 11:10, 11 September 2007 (PDT)

I'm not quite sure how this ties into the science aspect, but there's also the concept of a tulpa or "thought-form." I remember Warren posted a bunch about it months ago. It shows up in Tibetan mysticism, and very very simply, it's about the creation of an autonomous being through willpower and imagination. Could he have tied together this mystical construct with technology, and be utilizing equipment to keep them in existence?

We also haven't really discussed mental illness - maybe the event with the Elder Gods and his parents actually broke Reinhardt's mind, set him up for schizophrenia, or a form of MPD. Sing talks about how he wasn't the same two months before he left, perhaps he encountered his "trigger" that brought these latent personalities into consciousness. What if his mind wasn't big enough for all of them?

This doesn't discount that he created the Digital Tulpas to get them out of his head...but then why not create a separate tulpa for Sleepless? Maybe something went wrong, he and the Doktor are trapped together, somehow?--Adrammalech 14:03, 11 September 2007 (PDT)

I like the Tulpa idea. I think that deserves it's own page. --Rcapra 09:29, 12 September 2007 (PDT)

Done.--Adrammalech 19:12, 12 September 2007 (PDT)

The subtitle of Issue #5 is "Your Imaginary Friend." It seems that we are on the right track. --Grim 06:07, 14 September 2007 (PDT)

Warren posted in the talk section of the tulpa article, apparently, we are "interestingly ahead of the game."--Adrammalech 11:30, 14 September 2007 (PDT)

Tulpa is along the track of what I was thinking of, Adrammalech, thanks for the word rememberage.

Violent Virtue, Paranoia Agent is another great example of what I was trying to say. But is the "group belief" tulpa the same as a tulpa created by a single person? I think a groupthink tulpa could take on different characteristics depending on who's thinking about it at the time, making it much more volatile. Is Doktor Sleepless going to change as characters change what they think about him? --Murphix 09:31, 15 September 2007 (PDT)

Noting that the B&W covers for #1 and #2 feature homunculi (#1, creature sucking on lollipop, #2, miniature human working as bookcase accessory / structural support), which may be a hint toward one sort or another of created-being scenario. --Chaos 10:07, 15 September 2007 (PDT)

I dont know... the good doktor is seen talking to the hobos, who are unlikely to be using clatter...

i think its more feasible that john rienhardt in cell 23 is the doktors tulpa. i like the idea of the doktor dropping such a massive hint in the face of the cops.

allthough the presence of the nurse and the driver could support the theory of the doktor being a tulpa, with the nurse acting as his guardian on behalf of john reinhardt.

Doktor sleepless = culmination of imminent.sea data y/n? --Faust 11:29, 8 Jan 2008 (gmt)

Certainly, issue #5 has brought the tulpa idea to the forefront, except DS tells Stoker that he "hallucinated" imprisoning John Reinhardt, then draws some of his own blood to prove that DS is really Reinhardt. However, he draws the blood out of the fingertip of his glove, so it really doesn't prove anything, does it?--Adrammalech 15:07, 8 February 2008 (PST)

There is the possibility that the fall down of the theory due to the reciever/transmitter problem can be amended by having an actual human being be the reciever.

The doktor mentions he is working on a zombie making machine, so what if Reindhart could download his personality, and a projected image of his physical appearance into a willing, or unwilling body. So example, the shrieky girls all share a collective awareness of the others emotive and physical experiances. They have someone elses interactions pumped into their brains. So what is John simply pumped his emotions and feelings and experiances into someone elses brain and then stood back and watched himself grow another him. An image emitter like a hologram could make him look different, or perhaps a chip that sends a signal to peoples lenses that give the host the physical appearance of Reindhart.

And the fake blood swap?

Well host Reindhart does not know he is not the Doktor, so he feels he has to hide his identity, even though he isn't the one he thinks it is.

This kind of slots with the tulpa idea, as the spiritual tulpa is thoughts running free, well this is a scientific tulpa, constructed of the same thoughts and emotions as John, but free to do whatever he wants. --Doktor-Nick 20:54 25 November 2008