Book One - the Big Picture

From doktorsleepless

Book One - the Big Picture

Posted by Ian 'Cat' Vincent on September 4, 2008 at 6:15pm

Suggesting we have a thread to talk about DS on a larger scale, now that Book 1 is complete.

What do we think? What (and who!) do we like and dislike? How does the integration of the comic story and the backmatter/wiki/Grinding/Darkening web presence work for you? Where do the little clues we've got so far point? What's the Big Story?

And what do we hope to see next?

Reply by Mike Hills on September 5, 2008 at 12:01am

I think the Big Picture is that the world is fucked unless we change the path we're on...

And that you have to be careful how you try and change it; that being the lesson from the Dok essentially creating the present (of the book) by inventing embedable-tags. He's only made things worse, and now he's trying to fix his mistakes. Mistakes he made as a teenager. As an adult, having gone off, seen more of the world and grown, he has a wiser take on it all.

Who do I want to see more of? The Shrieky Girls :D and the Grinder kids in general. I'm also dying for a panel to show us that it's not just the kids of Heavenside tuning in to his transmissions, but it's going out worldwide. In fact, at some point, might we see a massive immigration of Grinder kids from across the country/world.. as Heavenside becomes the focal point of a new turning point for the Future? A Haight-Ashbury type focal point?!

The scifi element I'm most dying to see explored in Vol2 is the post-masked Seers.. what is Warren going to do with that?

Also, I really hope Grinding.be is helping; we're sure trying!

Reply by Spiraltwist on September 11, 2008 at 3:23am

I'm also dying for a panel to show us that it's not just the kids of Heavenside tuning in to his transmissions, but it's going out worldwide.

If Stoker was listening to the broadcast at doktorsleepless.com, then it should be worldwide. The Grinder kids are going to want to talk and share the linkies, right?

(as in it might have already happened, just not pictured in the book yet)

Reply by Mark Crabtree on October 1, 2008 at 11:29am

I think the Big Picture is that the world is fucked unless we change the path we're on...

Is that what you're hearing?

Reply by Spiraltwist on September 11, 2008 at 3:20am

I missed this thread.

I think I need to re-read the entire arc, from start to finish, when I've had more sleep and can digest it better.

doktorsleepless.com - I try, but I wish more people would contribute. I know I post a lot, but anyone can post (and they should), but it comes down to people actually doing just that. No quite "aggressive" apathy, but close. Lead a horse to water, etc.. And no one can say they can't do it - I did it, and I didn't know shit about posting to a wiki (and I still don't know, sometimes). My main hope is people do travel and read and gain something from what has been presented there.

I have a few brain wiggles still, but I haven't fully processed them. The more done they are in my brain, the better chance people will understand what I type about. See the reread sentence above.

Back to this thread in a few days.

Reply by Mark Crabtree on October 1, 2008 at 11:31am

I've done a few bit's on the wiki, but I might pop in over the next few das, I think one of the key things it's missing is more info about the music that's playing quite a key role so far.

Reply by Spiraltwist on October 1, 2008 at 3:14pm

Please, do stop by the wiki and plug in the music info that you think it's missing. :)

Reply by Mark Crabtree on October 1, 2008 at 11:42am

My feeling is that (plotwise, at least) we've barely seen the big picture. The Dok is working Heavenside up into such a state that it's impossible for them to tell what he's really up to, and I'm not convinced we have much more of an insight either.

It'll be interesting to see how the story feels once it's had a bit of time to become detached from all the extras surrounding it.

and next? I want to kow more about the Doktor's support network. We know about the Nurse, there seems to be a driver and jewlery girl is connected as well. Who else? As smart as he is I doubt he's pulling all of this off without a little backup.

Reply by Spiraltwist on October 1, 2008 at 3:14pm

As smart as he is I doubt he's pulling all of this off without a little backup.

Good point.

Reply by Metacelsus on September 16, 2008 at 11:08am

I'm interested in the pains the good Doktor went to making sure that Sing was afraid of him, maybe he's trying to keep her away from him so nothing happens to her but I'm betting that Sleepless is setting her up to move against him at some later date.

I don't believe the Elder God story for a minute and I don't think Sleepless does either. As far as it is true I'm guessing it's metaphorical, with the Elder gods representing corporations or other systems of control (actually probably not corporations and so on specifically but rather the society that allows these sorts of systems to exist, since Ellis really seems to be after lazy individual thinking with this series rather than evil organisations) and Sleepless' destruction of the world means destroying the society that allows people to be fed to these systems. I'm also guessing these systems led to the Reinhardt's killing themselves, maybe just indirectly because of the terrible state of the world (a recurring theme in the Darkening Sky if I recall) but maybe something more direct.

I'm going to look like a right idiot when the series culminates in Doktor Sleepless nutting Cthulu aren't I?

Reply by Spiraltwist on September 22, 2008 at 4:59pm

I'm going to look like a right idiot when the series culminates in Doktor Sleepless nutting Cthulu aren't I?

Nah. I think this series is a way for Mr. Ellis to laugh at us all, while we scramble in the dark, trying to find a clue and failing miserably.

Reply by Ken Kills on September 30, 2008 at 6:31pm

a brilliant reason why you shouldn't obsess over this sort of thing. if you lay back and enjoy the ride, then his dark machinations don't affect you. then he has no power and disappears like the boogeyman

Reply by Spiraltwist on September 30, 2008 at 10:39pm

I tell myself that all the time, but the OCD says no. ;)

Reply by William Howard on October 3, 2008 at 10:43am

Damn it, I want my copy of Number 9 so I can go back to wiki editing. CRAVINGS!

Reply by Mike Hills on September 18, 2008 at 11:00am

Yes, that was definitely the most intriguing thing moving forward with the plot. Post-human seers, what will they see and how will that change things?

Reply by Metacelsus on September 18, 2008 at 2:53pm

You know, until you said 'Post Human' I didn't even think of the seers in a transhumanist way but maybe that's where it's going? I assumed an entirely biological disease, but maybe there's a tech component there.

Reply by Spiraltwist on September 22, 2008 at 5:00pm

what will they see

Dead people?

Reply by Metacelsus on September 23, 2008 at 2:42pm

One way or another I'll bet you're right.

Reply by KloKworK on September 24, 2008 at 2:19pm

I guess i'm also looking at the themes of the other comics that Ellis does. His major themes are all based on a fucked up society in one way or another. Blackgas is traditional zombies but i will never forget what zombies were intended to represent. Also in Black Summer the main theme it a few people who can do some really cool shit and how their society turned on them. Its also about fighting against the corrupt government, you know enforcing those second amandment rights...

I havent read No Hero yet cause my local store sold out. and although I'm glad to see that Warren Ellis is doing well in Eerie, I really wanted that one. Based on this i can assume that religion (and although the Elder Gods are cool) is not somthing that will be true in this comic. At least I would be realy suprised it it was. It is just not one of his themes.

Reply by Metacelsus on September 24, 2008 at 3:38pm

This is kind of my thinking too but the fact that it doesn't seem to be the sort of thing Ellis is interested in writing isn't enough reason to discount a Cthulu outcome by itself. At this point I'm willing to believe he'd do it to deliberately mess with our expectations.

I think a better reason is that Elder Gods as bad guys are just inherently less interesting (to me anyway) than people and I think it's pretty clear that Warren is trying to make us think with DS.

Reply by Spiraltwist on September 24, 2008 at 6:12pm

I havent read No Hero yet cause my local store sold out.

Get them to reorder it for you - it's still available from Diamond. If they claim they don't have/can't get the codes for the book, let me know I will get them for you.

Only the #0 issue has shipped so far.

Reply by Mark Crabtree on October 1, 2008 at 11:50am

Ok, I've got a question about STE. Why the masks? If their perceptions are permanently screwed anyway, why the masks?

I suppose it might just be so that they look weird, but that seems to simple. Thoughts?

Reply by Metacelsus on October 1, 2008 at 1:53pm

Well on the one hand they are scarred and might want to hide that.

On the other maybe the good Doktor slipped something interesting into the masks. If they're seeing visions anyway maybe they won't be able to tell the difference when he starts feeding them his own stuff.

Reply by Spiraltwist on October 1, 2008 at 3:16pm

If they're seeing visions anyway maybe they won't be able to tell the difference when he starts feeding them his own stuff.

Hmm...given they will tell people what they see, what a perfect delivery system.

Reply by KloKworK on October 10, 2008 at 6:16pm

great point now lets just see what happens in #9!

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